informal group

Excerpts

What our teachers say on it: excerpts from the talks and texts, lightly edited and shortened; an ellipsis (…) marks a sentence or more left out. The titles above the excerpts are mine, the teacher's words are in the excerpt; a question under a title really was asked at the talk. How they were made →

1. Dogen Sangha exists when we meet

   We meet together as a group and we have a name, Dogen Sangha, because sangha means a group and Dogen is where our teachings came from. But Pavel said some years ago: “It doesn't exist.” When we come together, Dogen Sangha exists, and when we go home it doesn't exist anymore. I like that a lot. So for me it's better not to have an organisation. That's my personal preference, partly because I want to avoid making something special.

   Mike · Not Making Practice Special July 2021 — Skalní fara

2. Happy not making an organization

   Personally, I'm very happy not making an organization, because it's easier for me, carrying on in a similar way to Nishijima. He never tried to attract people. Some of the things he said made people leave. For nearly eighty years he continued like this. And now there are people all over the world who studied with him, and here and there there are groups like ours. Whether they get bigger or stronger, or smaller, I don't know. If we were an organization that had a structure and courses and charged bigger fees and so on, we could get lots more people. But my idea is not like that. So my idea is rather lazy.

   Mike · Effort Without Knowing the Result May 2014 — Banský Studenec

3. Growing rather than building

   In my opinion, we don't need to build up a big group. We don't need to have a structure, a hierarchy, although Nishijima was always the teacher. He never made a hierarchy. So I've been proceeding like that, and something has grown in 14 years, in the Czech Republic and here. … Everybody has been making an effort, and something has grown. My feeling is that it's better for something to grow naturally than to be constructed intentionally. That's only my personal feeling. So, making an effort, maybe people come, maybe they don't come. It's okay. Sometimes at Nishijima's retreats we only had five or six people. Sometimes we had twenty-five or twenty-six, sometimes forty-five, forty-six. It changed with the years: not getting bigger and bigger and bigger, but going up and down.

   Mike · Effort Without Knowing the Result May 2014 — Banský Studenec

4. The downside of a loose group

   With this kind of very loose organization which we have, it's quite difficult for new people to feel enthusiastic. So one difficulty is when new people come. They want to know what they are coming to. What kind of group are they joining? How do they join? What benefit can they get? And so on. I don't know how to solve this problem. I think it's up to everybody to find the solution.

   Mike · Effort Without Knowing the Result May 2014 — Banský Studenec

5. Not like selling biscuits

   I don't mean to suggest that we shouldn't have any intention to do anything. But I would like to suggest that some things grow naturally. Part of that natural process is pulling something towards you, pushing something away from you, and finding your way. I don't mean that you just hire a room and sit in it. Dogen Sangha started with Nishijima Roshi. He never tried to create a big group, to make it bigger. He tried once, when he was very old, to create Dogen Sangha International, and it didn't work. So it's finished. I only mean to suggest that with Buddhism, it's not like selling biscuits. If you make biscuits which are very delicious, you can advertise them. People come and buy them. … Then you can build a big factory. Then you can build a factory in another country. The teachings of Dogen are not like that. Dogen himself lived in a little temple in the hills. … It's not like building an organization. Of course, organization is necessary, but it's something different.

   Mike · Effort Without Knowing the Result May 2014 — Banský Studenec

6. Many small gatherings

   The group I studied with, Dogen Sangha, and the people in it: I think we are interested in teaching people how to practise zazen, for people who want to, and in finding a way to do that. The best way seems to be to make lots of small gatherings: different people coming at different times, practising zazen at home, exchanging our experiences. So this is my idea of how to spread Dogen's Buddhism. It is founded on the central belief that everybody who practises zazen is a Buddha, and new or old is not important. This is what Dogen says.

   Mike · No Hierarchy of Enlightenment July 2009 — Dibbavana

7. Let it break up, and keep practising

   Let it break up. But continue to practise, and continue to keep in contact. And I think that it's not necessary to get large numbers of people. So I never tried to get anybody. But once, when somebody who had come for four or five years said they didn't want to come anymore, I was very sad, so I rang them up and said, ‘I'm sorry, something's not good enough for you.’ … Actually, in Bristol, where I live, we have a group, and maybe six or seven years ago we had fifteen people coming. Recently only four. So I don't try to increase it. Even if one person learns how to practise zazen every day, it's great.

   Mike · No Hierarchy of Enlightenment July 2009 — Dibbavana

8. If the group gets smaller

   I think we should not do anything. If our group gets smaller, we can teach one person or two people. If there is nobody, we can stop. People should decide freely. I never want to encourage somebody to come or stop them from leaving. Everybody makes up their own mind. This is a sad fact, or sometimes a happy fact. So we have to accept it.

   Mike · Western Buddhism and Hierarchy February 2009 — Cholín

9. I never ask why they stop

   asked at the talk Do you ask people why they stopped sitting?

   No, I never ask. If they want to stop, fine. I don’t mind. If they want to leave, it’s fine. So I never ask. And there must be many, many different reasons, maybe. I’ve had lots of people come to the groups who are very enthusiastic, and then they disappear again. They’re very enthusiastic because they’re hoping to get something, happiness or enlightenment or something. Then they realise, whoa, this is quite hard work. This is something different. So they leave again. But, you know, I don’t know. I don’t really know.

   Mike · Zazen Is Not Meditation July 2021 — Skalní fara

10. The real rituals are daily life

    If you want ritual, I'll tell you what the real rituals are: getting up in the morning, making your bed, washing your face, cleaning your teeth, having breakfast, going to work. These are rituals. And if we join a group and make all the rituals inside this box, which is special, then people say, How can I make Buddhism part of my life? Well, the answer is: leave the group, throw it away, and just live. What the original Buddha taught had nothing to do with these ceremonies and these groups. He wasn't teaching about ritual. He was teaching how to live.

    Mike · Not Making Practice Special July 2021 — Skalní fara

• Dogen Sangha appears when we have a meeting or a session. Then it disappears.

  Two Things, and the Rest Is Fashion August 2012 — Dibbavana

The most important text

1. Effort Without Knowing the Result ●●● May 2014 — Banský Studenec

   it's better for something to grow naturally than to be constructed intentionally

   attempt to create Dogen Sangha International · loose organization and newcomers · neither building nor resisting a group · not like selling biscuits · not making an organization · not trying to attract people

Other texts

2. Two Things, and the Rest Is Fashion ●●● August 2012 — Dibbavana

   don't try to build a group. But don't resist a group if it's building

   Dogen Sangha as a gathering · neither building nor resisting a group · something different from formal Buddhism
3. No Hierarchy of Enlightenment ●●● July 2009 — Dibbavana

   I don't try to increase it. Even if one person learns how to practise zazen every day, it's great.

   group size not mattering · not trying to attract people · small gatherings
4. Not Making Practice Special ●●● July 2021 — Skalní fara

   How can I make Buddhism part of my life? Well, the answer is: leave the group, throw it away, and just live

   Dogen Sangha as a gathering · leave the group and just live · not making an organization
5. Western Buddhism and Hierarchy ●●● February 2009 — Cholín

   If our group gets smaller, we can teach one person or two people. If there is nobody, we can stop.

   group size not mattering
6. When the Mud Buffalo Dissolve ●●● August 2011 — Dibbavana

   You, all of you, each of you, make a Dogen Sangha. The Dogen Sangha emerges when we have a retreat.

   Dogen Sangha as a gathering
7. Zazen Is Not Meditation ●●● July 2021 — Skalní fara

   No, I never ask. If they want to stop, fine.

   not trying to attract people

Keywords