Dojo and Home, Sacred and Ordinary

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Because there's a small difference. But only small. So many small differences make a big difference. So there is some kind of trust. But in the end, it's a personal decision. So we can say the same for everything. If we persist, maybe there is some benefit. If we stop, there's certainly no benefit. Absolutely, a hundred percent. So, shall I stop? It's a personal decision.

Participant: I would like to go back to the picture. Maybe some of you know, maybe some of you don't know, that based on these membranes life on Earth started to appear. The first cells, the first single cells, were in the membrane. The cells gradually developed an ability to shape and change, to transform the membranes and make them more complicated, or to reproduce and connect. A cell contains a mitochondria, which is a little organ. But this mitochondria used to be a single cell, and was eaten by another cell and started to work as a generator of energy, started to produce energy for the eater.

Mike: It's very fascinating.

Participant: This was oxygenless production of energy, because there was no oxygen. As oxygen became part of the atmosphere, there were new cells that already used that oxygen.

Mike: I like this. Another picture from Boris's teaching.

Participant: Oxygen debt, so one ate the other in order to produce energy, or how? I don't understand this.

Participant: Well, more modern, because of the oxygen ones. And better, the oxygen ones produced more energy. Energy is produced in that.

Participant: Aha.

Mike: [inaudible] This is what happens in many, many Buddhist groups. Everything is sacred. So we must hold incense like this, wear a robe like this, bow like this, creep around in the sacred area. Then we can go out and become, whee! Then we can go back in. But even in the second century, Nagarjuna said very strongly, This place and this place are the same. So we have to have a semi-permeable membrane.

And we have to realise that sacred is ordinary. Ordinary is sacred. So this is sacred, and it's ordinary. This is sacred, and it's ordinary. Inside the dojo, or the room, is sacred, but it's ordinary. This is the reason, personally, I don't like when we make things too sacred. I feel I don't like it. If you do like this, it's okay. I don't mind. But some people make it too sacred, I feel. This is nice, but it's ordinary. So it's very important because without being like an original cell, life will not develop. Buddhism stays inside. It doesn't change its form. So I suppose I feel Hannya Shingyo is too sacred for me, personally. Maybe that's my problem in my head.

Boris: I'd like to say something, my personal experience: in the past I had a huge problem with that difference. After spending some time in a temple, I was not able to come back to my ordinary life and function normally.

Mike: Yes, many people, yes.

Boris: I think it also affected my relationship with my partner. I think it has taken a while, but I think I understood this from Mike. So I thank you for that.

Mike: Thank you.

In the Japanese tea ceremony, they treat cup and teapot and spoon as sacred. It's ordinary. Ordinary Japanese cup. But they treat it very carefully. And a Japanese tea master who is a friend of Lisa said a very nice phrase. In Japanese, jibun o daiji ni shite, mono o daiji ni shite, jibun o daiji ni suru, which means treating things carefully or preciously is treating yourself preciously. So, not treating the incense specially only, but treating your toothbrush specially. In Zen, we do a lot of bowing. Unfortunately, this is also religious for Europe. So it became some kind of religious symbol. But in Japan and in India, it doesn't have a religious meaning. Originally, this posture is called Anjali. And it represents balance of opposites. So it's nice to think when we bow, bowing is just Japanese hello. That's all. People, hello. They don't say hello. It's like, hello, I'm in balance. Hello, you're in balance.

Roman: Can I say something?

Mike: Yes.

Roman: I'll say it in English first. I had, I don't know, some long period when I often read Kodo Sawaki, and he often says this: treat things preciously, and that this is the point of Buddhism. And I kept comparing that ideal, that principle, with my own horrible, how I treated things in my house, and it was careless, completely the opposite. And for a long time I was frustrated because I thought I am a complete failure as a Buddhist, that it is completely embarrassing. It bothered me. I cannot pretend that I'm a good Buddhist if I cannot do things. Probably. And then after some time I gave up, and just said, I don't care. And then I noticed, step by step, probably because of practising zazen, I started to do things carefully, not because I read about it, but somehow it is more natural now.

Mike: But you don't have to treat your home like a dojo. Then you don't need to treat the dojo as your home. But not so different. Both are important. Both are ordinary. Both are sacred. Many poets talk of the sacred nature of reality. If we go into the mountains, we can see something sacred. So we say, wonderful.

Question: And could you please comment on that very, very radical statement by Kodo Sawaki, Zazen is useless. Could you explain that to us, what he meant, what he means.

Participant: Yes. He means zazen is useless.

Mike: Well, in Japan, over the centuries, from the sixth century, when Buddhism started to come from China, people slowly started to think that Buddhism can give you some special state. Which is, in Sanskrit, nirvana, or in Japanese satori, in English enlightenment. And this belief is very, very strong. So people thought that if they practise zazen, they can get some special state. I don't mean just feel more balanced. They wanted some special state. So in that situation, Kodo Sawaki wanted to say, You can't get anything. And many people still feel that if you're very religious, you can get some special state. And at the same time, Dogen says zazen is dropping off. And dropping off means taking off your clothes, or getting rid of things. So when Kodo Sawaki said, You can't get anything, he's also supporting a different way of thinking about zazen.

Not getting knowledge, not getting wisdom, not getting balance. Uncovering. Uncovering your own balance. So he said, you can't get anything, because people had a very strong belief in Japan.

Jitka: Maybe for us Europeans it's difficult not to look for something in it. That's why we always look for something.

Mike: Yes. And there is something. But we can't get it if we look for it. Because it's when we stop looking that it's there. It's when we stop trying that it's here. If we want to be here, we have to stop trying to be somewhere else. So to stop is important.

Jitka: It's difficult because we always live by looking for something or running somewhere.

Mike: Yes, it's true. It's a very, very strong habit in Western society, so almost impossible for us to break. The little child sits on the floor, just sitting, but we can't do it. Because we are not little children. But Jesus said, unless you become like a little child, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. But we are not little children. So how to be a little child is very difficult. So anyway, sorry.

Participant: Something good came to my mind when you were speaking about sacred places, sacred things, that we, I think, also do the same with the time. That we sacrifice some time and we say, Oh, this time is very important, and the other time is not important.

Mike: Yes.

Participant: And I think it's important to mention that we do it not only with places, things, relationships, but with time. Which is the basic matter of our possibility to be present. So we say, Oh, we are stepping into the dojo, we are now present. And when we go outside of the dojo, we treat the time differently. Which is strange.

Mike: Yes. But it's a very difficult problem for us, or very difficult situation for us, because we have a lot of pressure in our lives from society, to live in society. We are living in society.

Question: But should there be any mental effort or trying to be here? I think that's counterproductive too, right?

Mike: We are always here. Even when we're not here.

Boris: Maybe we shouldn't be so afraid to be a minority in a majority society, which runs after something all the time. It could be enough just to have that internal satisfaction that we can't miss anything special.

Mike: Yes. So Kodo Sawaki was a rebel, and my teacher was a rebel. I'm not a rebel, but I'm separate from the society.

Jitka: Sometimes the pressure of the society is so big that it's difficult not to become part of it. But of course it's about our decision.

Mike: Yeah, but we can be part of it and be separate from it. Finished? So this is the last talk. Thank you very much for listening to me, and for joining in.

Roman: Thank you very much for explaining important things to us.

Mike: Thank you. Actually, I'm explaining them to myself. Just you happen to be here.