When the Mud Buffalo Dissolve

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Lucia just told me that when her dog, Finny, was very small, he had lots and lots of energy, so he had to be trained to sit peacefully. I can imagine that little dog jumping, jumping, jumping, running everywhere. So to make him sit peacefully, he must have had very hard training. And it reminded me of zazen.

I think zazen is the same thing as training Finny. We train ourselves to sit, and there are usually two problems that make it difficult. Three problems. But anyway, one is that if we have lots of energy, we find it difficult to sit. So I think it's difficult for children, for example, to sit. They don't want to sit still; they want to jump around. And it's also difficult for us to sit sometimes if we have lots of energy moving in us, or, for instance, if we are very angry or feel very strong desire or something. It's then very difficult to sit, because we have lots of energy that wants to get out. So I think sometimes in that situation it's better to do something else.

If we force ourselves to sit, it's very difficult if we have lots of energy. I remember a young man who used to sit in our group in Bristol about ten years ago. He was young, so he had lots of energy, lots of sexual energy probably, and he had lots of trouble with girlfriends because he had lots of energy, and he couldn't sit. He tried very hard to sit, and I could see him sitting there, always changing his legs, on and on and on for a couple of years. So I said to him, Go and live your life. It's better. And he did, and we didn't see him for eight years. But then he came back, and... Maybe he has less energy now, so it's easier to sit. So I think, especially for young people who have lots of energy, compared with me, for instance, we can't suppress our energy, even if we think zazen is the greatest thing on earth.

We have to follow the flow of energy. We can't force it in another direction. And we don't need to judge it: Oh, I should be still. So, in training ourselves, we can sit when we can sit.

That's my approach. Some teachers say you should force yourself through the barrier. So they say, Don't move, don't move, make yourself sit and push through the barrier to some other place.

The second problem we have with zazen is illustrated by this koan story. Once in medieval China, two young monks were walking around the hillside far from the temple. They crossed the small stream, and as they crossed it, one of them noticed a cabbage leaf coming down the stream. So he said to the other young monk, Oh, I'm sure somebody must be living further up the stream. Let's go and find them. Because in those days there were many people, monks and others, living alone on the hillsides. And they said to the old monk, Oh, what are you doing living here? And the old monk said, I don't know. But there used to be two mud buffalo fighting together. But they both walked into the sea, and they dissolved. So now I'm living peacefully on this mountain.

So, two buffalo made of mud, and they were always fighting. But while they were fighting, they walked into the sea, and they dissolved in the water.

So the old monk was explaining something which happens to us. In other words, we have two different viewpoints inside us, and those two viewpoints are fighting with each other: first this one, then that one, then this one, then that one. But when the monk said the buffalo are made of mud, he was suggesting that they aren't real. When he said they walked into the sea, he was suggesting practising zazen. There is a possibility that they will walk into the sea and dissolve, during zazen.

So I think it's a nice story to illustrate something which happens to everybody, because human beings have different points of view inside themselves.

There was a famous psychiatrist who lived in... maybe he died in about 1960. Was it Menninger?

Roman: Or Fromm?

Mike: Yes, either Erich Fromm or Karl Menninger, I've forgotten which, wrote a book called Love Against Hate.

Roman: Erich Fromm.

Mike: Fromm. And another book called Man Against Himself. Both these books are very old-fashioned if you read them. They were written in the 1940s. But they talk about conflict inside. In one of those books, I've forgotten which one, maybe Man Against Himself, he explained that, for instance, if we have a conflict inside ourselves which involves another person, we create an image of that person in ourselves, and then we fight against the image we created.

I remember I often had many problems with my mother. She died nearly twenty years ago. But when she was alive, I often used to have conflict in myself with her. And when I read the book, Fromm's book, I realised that in the conflict I was against myself. I was fighting with myself. So I tried to remember that. Because I think the image we create of somebody else inside ourselves is just the mud. So although the koan story is from the 10th century, the image of a mud buffalo is very exact.

So I wanted to talk about that this morning, and I'd like to hear if anybody has something to say. Physical pain is a different problem.

Participant: I went to a rock concert with a friend who had had a fight with one of his brothers. That friend of mine actually attacked him physically; he punched his brother in the face. Later they went outdoors and kept punching each other for twenty minutes. Then my friend came back inside, went back to the rock concert, and his eyes were full of tears. He sat on a chair and started to cry, because he felt like the worst person in the world, because he had just punched his own brother. I understood that up to that point. But the split into two personalities in him, like the two mud buffalo, showed immediately, because he said that while they were scuffling outside, he grabbed his brother by the throat in a way that could have been deadly if he had held him like that for longer. But I was sure he was not going to kill him. Yet my friend began to pile one guilt on top of another, although they were not real, as if he had split his personality into a criminal and a judge who has to punish the criminal.

Mike: Yes.

Participant: So the criminal in him kept crying, and the judge kept punishing or hitting. He was sitting there completely paralysed, and we didn't know what to do about it. Later they had a small fight again, some punching again. But they made up eventually, and they like each other. I think it was an important experience. I think everyone has two opposite forces: one is the judging one, and one is the judged one. And it makes a conflict that is difficult to overcome.

Participant: For me, this is parallel to the mud buffalo. It's my direct experience, and probably many people have it. I have experience: for instance, I can sit for some time, or sometimes, like for a week or a month, I'm just not able to sit. But it's sometimes strange, because many times it's because of strong emotions, like anger or worry, and if I try it, it was really funny... But sometimes I'm just angry, I just sit, five minutes, an hour, two, and it didn't work, it just didn't work. And then also, when I come to the same thing, I just sit, totally fine, great, I just sit... So it's sometimes really amazing if you have time to sit and you sit.

Participant: [inaudible] spoke about the conflict between two women, so... My mother was looking after my daughter, and at a certain point my daughter did something wrong, and my mother just couldn't help it and slapped her. My mother expected a huge drama, with my daughter reacting to it by crying. But instead my daughter just looked at her and said, That was quick, Grandma.

Mike: Of course, there are some people who are very disciplined, very strong on discipline, so... I never met Deshimaru. I went on a sesshin. And during the sitting, Philippe Coupey... And he came around with the... And I remember, as he came near...

Boris: Yes, there are some stories about this. Somebody hit him the wrong way, and he stood up and pinched the kyosaku on the back.

Mike: That was because they hit him on his head by mistake or something.

Roman: You said you decided to grab the kyosaku.

Mike: Yes, yes, but he didn't hit me.

So it doesn't work. I can't be like this. I don't know if it works for somebody to say to you, Sit. I can't imagine how to sit peacefully in those situations. So I can't do it.

Participant: Like in [inaudible] before, when one girl was laughing and couldn't stop during zazen, a kyosaku man was sent to her and hit her without her asking for the kyosaku.

Boris: Were you there?

Participant: Yes.

Boris: How did you feel?

Participant: I'll just say: I think the kyosaku is fine if you want it, but on the whole it creates tension in the dojo. And if that happens, that she was laughing and couldn't stop, I think she could have been asked to leave rather than hit.

Boris: But for me, you are quite disciplined.

Mike: Me?

Boris: Yeah, I would say, on the other hand, there are other extremes, when people are too relaxed, laughing, chatting, and you don't like it.

Mike: That's because I'm a miserable old sod.

Participant: This discipline problem reminds me of my memories from school, when we had to sit with our hands behind our backs. I don't remember any teaching, because I was too worried about my lack of freedom. Because I was a child.

Participant: People are different, and some people suffer when discipline is not demanded of them. Yeah, there are like two extremes, but when there is absolutely no discipline required at school, the kids also suffer.

Mike: I had a conversation with Lisa, my partner, about discipline, because she doesn't like to be told to do something. She said she came to a retreat. She didn't know me. She came to my sesshin at Earth Spirit, near Bristol. And she went out for a walk with a friend, and they came back late. So everybody was sitting at the table. Because she saw me as somebody who was kind of, with the coffee, looking and judging. And I said to her, I didn't even notice. Maybe I looked, but I didn't notice. And I think if people see some kind of look in me, it's only me disciplining myself. So I realise that sometimes people see something in me that's not there.

Participant: Projection of our own things.

Mike: Yes. Projection. So we project onto the teacher or whoever, sometimes. Not always.

Roman: Can I ask you: in the morning before the first zazen, you always look a little bit angry or not happy, but do you usually feel new? Do you feel normal, relaxed in the morning? Before the first zazen in the morning, when it's dark, every morning. No, I'm just asking: do you usually feel normal in the morning before zazen, or different? Different. Because you always look kind of strict and a little bit angry.

Mike: Yeah. So this is my projection. If I look angry or strict, I'm dealing with my own problems.

Roman: But it could be. Even when you feel neutral, you also think you look neutral.

Mike: I can't tell you. But if I look angry, usually I have two mud buffalo.

Boris: And this morning you had a kesa and...

Mike: Yes.

Boris: You were testing some difference, or not?

Mike: No, just my teacher always, every morning, at the first zazen in the morning, did three prostrations. Then he would walk around to check everybody's posture, and then he would sit down. So that's something I like. I don't like him, actually, but I respect him, and I like that something, just first thing in the morning. Prostrations don't mean anything to me, but it's a nice exercise. So if I do prostrations with no kesa and no zagu, I feel something is missing. So I put it on this morning. We had happy sesshins in Japan in the 1980s. So I put on the kesa.

Participant: I have a question regarding discipline. Maybe it's sometimes easier for ourselves to follow discipline, but when we live with someone, in our household or families, there are always more points of view, and it's much harder to find a balance. We need to make compromises. Is there any exercise or...?

Mike: I don't know. I'm still working on it.

Compromise has no rules. Compromise is always between two concrete differences. So where the compromise is, we don't know until the actual time. If two strong people disagree, the compromise comes out of their disagreement. Giving up disagreement. It's two strong opinions pushing against each other, and the compromise is in the middle. If this person gives up their strong opinion, there's no compromise. You can see this in diplomatic negotiation. In very serious situations, compromise comes out of two positions of strength.

Participant: So, do the buffaloes keep fighting forever? No. They just turn away.

Mike: That's another situation, yes. So that's not compromise. If the two buffaloes disappear in the sea, there is no problem to compromise.

Boris: But what if each buffalo goes in another direction, and they do not disappear?

Mike: Yes, it's a different case. The story means two parts of ourselves. So if two parts of ourselves go in different directions, we become schizophrenic. So we need to keep fighting. Otherwise we become dangerous.

Well, anyway, this is the last talk of the sesshin, so I'd like to thank everybody for listening to me. I think not only the people who speak but also the people who don't speak are equal, and contribute equally. Thank you, everybody. As I guess you know, I'm not coming. I think maybe you're going to have a sesshin in the winter, maybe.

Roman: Yes. You want to make it together with Pavel and... So, is a solution possible? Maybe it's next summer again here. It's possible that you will be here next summer.

Mike: Possible, yeah, yeah. But we never arrange it until a few months before, because, you know, everybody has a busy life, and I'm not sure, and Pavel's not sure. So we fix it, talking about a sesshin next year. We don't know. We never know until a few months before where we're going to go or what we're going to do, because that's the way we do it.

That's all. I just said at the end, if you have a sesshin in the winter, I won't be there, but I hope it goes well. That's all. No detailed conversation.

Boris: We wish you a happy recovery.

Mike: Thank you. Actually, I don't know. If I have a hip operation, I don't know whether I can sit like this. I asked the doctor and he said, Should be okay, because you have a new joint. So how much you can move, I don't know. But he was sitting in seiza.

Participant: I would like to thank Mike and everyone else that I could take part. It's my first time at a sesshin. I have been to different groups of people, but this group is where I feel at home.

Participant: Yesterday I discussed with Boris possibly arranging, organising a retreat, in Slovakia or in the Czech Republic, in winter, or maybe two retreats. On the other hand, I think even that situation is a chance to find our own way. Lots of people say group, our group, but in fact there is no Dogen Sangha group, or fixed Dogen Sangha group, and there will never be a fixed Dogen Sangha group. There is and is not a Dogen Sangha. You, all of you, each of you, make a Dogen Sangha. The Dogen Sangha emerges when we have a retreat. But on the other hand, I think it's very important to have the chance to share our different personal experiences, to practise together and not to be closed in our own lives, our own separate opinions or something. I would like to continue the tradition of retreats, but it's up to you, if you participate, if you show up. Without you there will be no retreats, and we would like to continue even when Mike cannot come.

Mike: I'd just like to thank Roman for his interpreting, which is a very tiring job.

Roman: But I really enjoy it. It's not so official. Thank you.